Let's have a reality check here. Sen. Obama appeared out of nowhere on the national scene in 2005 like the Trojan Horse on the beaches of Troy. Clinton's campaign spokespeople are making a pretty convincing case that given the electoral college, the prospects of this newcomer beating the G.O.P. in November are slim. When Obama dismissed the efforts to do re-votes in Florida and Michigan, for instance, he lost those two key states for the Dems.

Think about it - why are General Electric (owner of NBC/MSNBC), Rupert Murdoch (owner of Fox News, Wall Street Journal, AOL, etc.), Karl Rove, top Bush fundraisers and strategists covertly (and in some cases, overtly) backing Obama's bid? Could it be because they know that they can cancel him out next fall by having the U.S. Attorney in Chicago issue a Rezko-related indictment?

A little background: Tony Rezko is a longtime associate of Obama's currently on trial in Chicago for extortion and influence peddling. Patrick Fitzgerald, of Valerie Plame fame, is the prosecutor in the case. This is the same guy who failed to indict Rove or Cheney for their role in leaking Plame's C.I.A. identity to the press.

And there's more to this tale than the national press is telling. See the article I've posted at thecityedition.com, which links to lots of other newspaper stories. Here's a directlink. http://www.thecityedition.com/Pages/Archive/Winter08/2008Election.html

If you look into this, I think you'll be as surprised as I was.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Factcheck2,

quote:

Originally posted by Factcheck2:
Although Sen. Clinton denies she said Obama can't win the election, her campaign spokespeople are making a pretty convincing case that . . . his prospects for winning the electoral college are slim.

Hillary’s campaign spokesmen are not convincing. They’re about as convincing as Hillary claiming she ducked sniper fire in Bosnia. If you’re gullible enough to believe a Clinton spokesman, you’re gullible enough to believe Bubba Bill Clinton when he wags that finger. Regardless, Slick Willie & Slick Hilly are mostly detested & loathed here in Indiana.


And that’s why here in Indiana’s open primary, this is the Republicans one chance to vote against the obnoxious, wretched, horrifying, and unsightly Hillary Clinton.

How’s that you say?

The word is spreading far and wide throughout Indiana with Hoosiers by the thousands declaring themselves democrats-for-a-day (crossing over on primary day) just for the chance to vote against Hillary by voting for Obama. The Clintons in general and Hillary in particular are so hated that by the thousands the anti-Hillary forces will make their vote count at the polls on Indiana’s May primary day.

So do your part Hoosiers and Rushvillains. Vote against the very evil and insidious Hillary. You’ll feel so much better afterwards -- AND -- you’re helping to rid this country of its toxic cancer -- one Hillary Ramrod Clinton.

I don't know that I would call Senator Clinton "very evil and insidious". Dishonest, maybe. Flip-flopper, definitely. But she is not a "toxic cancer".
And, as far as voting for Senator Obama, I do intend to do so but it is not an anti-Clinton vote; it is a pro-Obama vote.
And if the GOP and Karl Rove are behind the whole Obama phenomenon, then they are remarkably stupid as when Senator Obama becomes President Obama, they are going to have some explaining to do.

Recently, in various threads, I have seen this "Karl Rove created Obama" conspiracy theory rearing its ugly head. At the same time, I have also seen the "Howard Dean and the DNC created Obama" conspiracy theory, too. Maybe Howard Dean and Karl Rove are working together to elect Obama as the next President. Or maybe, just maybe, Howard Dean is actually Karl Rove wearing a clever mask and disguise, destroying the DNC from the inside. It's all a vast rightwing-leftwing conspiracy.
Or maybe, as Senator Clinton often commands us, we should "get real". Senator Obama owes his success to no one except the voters of America and his own policies and commitment to bi-partisanship and accomplishment over "sniping" (Tuzla comes to mind).
Why is it that every "rightwing conspiracy" and "leftwing conspiracy" all seem to target the Clintons. Is someone just a wee bit paranoid?

If Clinton gets the nomination, I wonder if Rush Limbaugh will be on the short list for running mates?

Obama has been supported financially and morally by Karl Rove, leading conservatives, Howard Dean, the DNC executive committee, the US Media as a whole, and the government of Kenya. It is indecent. He has never stopped the negative attacks on Hillary Clinton from day one. He used the race card on former President Clinton. But he will find that you can't buy the nomination!

Do you have even a shred of evidence on these charges? Or are you just patching together every ridiculous internet rumor you could find? He has recieved money from the government of Kenya? Karl Rove? Do you mind backing up your words with some proof?

Have you heard the other Obama skeleton called
Larry Sinclair? There is a court case right now involving Obama, but the media has thus far refused to report the story. Why??


http://larrysinclair0926.wordpress.com/

Barack Hussein Obama is the black incarnation of Ronald. He likes to talk about the greatness or America. he makes you feel good, he builds up your hope, he talks about change, but when he is asked about specifics his swooning suppicants scream foul play. Whey they ask would you such a question? Well I'm sorry folks but but its cold shower time. He and his supporters blame Hillary for all the mud slinging, they have framed her as untrustworthy, they have used evrey word Newt Gingrich taught his followers to use to describe Democratic Candidates Politicians and Citizens.
Granted she has a tough streak.
Granted he has gotten the youth excited, emboldened, organized, and inspired with his Message, his vision and for that I am grateful.But Barack Hussein isn't the great Black hope of the Democratic party.
As I am about to show you, he has effectively muddied up the water with regards to his past record with his own words.

Read it and Scream

LIST OF LIES (Updated to reflect new dishonesties)
http://www.audacityofHypocrisy.com
OBAMA LAUNDRY LIST OF LIES (no less than 66 lies as of March 31 2008)
1.) Selma Got Me Born - LIAR, your parents felt safe enough to have you in 1961 - Selma had no effect on your birth, as Selma was in 1965.
2.) Father Was A Goat Herder - LIAR, he was a privileged, well educated youth, who went on to work with the Kenyan Government.
3.) Father Was A Proud Freedom Fighter - LIAR, he was part of one of the most corrupt and violent governments Kenya has ever had
4.) My Family Has Strong Ties To African Freedom - LIAR, your cousin Raila Odinga has created mass violence in attempting to overturn a legitimate election in 2007, in Kenya. It is the first widespread violence in decades.
5.) My Grandmother Has Always Been A Christian - LIAR, she does her daily Salat prayers at 5am according to her own interviews. Not to mention, Christianity wouldn’t allow her to have been one of 14 wives to 1 man.
6.) My Name is African Swahili - LIAR, your name is Arabic and ‘Baraka’ (from which Barack came) means ‘blessed’ in that language. Hussein is also Arabic and so is Obama.
7.) I Never Practiced Islam - LIAR, you practiced it daily at school, where you were registered as a Muslim and kept that faith for 31 years,until your
wife made you change, so you could run for office.
8.) My School In Indonesia Was Christian - LIAR, you were registered as Muslim there and got in trouble in Koranic Studies for making faces (check your own book).
9.) I Was Fluent In Indonesian - LIAR, not one teacher says you could speak the language.
10.) Because I Lived In Indonesia, I Have More Foreign Experience - LIAR, you were there from the ages of 6 to 10, and couldn’t even speak the language. What did you learn, how to study the Koran and watch cartoons.
11.) I Am Stronger On Foreign Affairs - LIAR, except for Africa (surprise) and the Middle East (bigger surprise), you have never been anywhere else on the planet and thus have NO experience with our closest allies.
12.) I Blame My Early Drug Use On Ethnic Confusion - LIAR, you were quite content in high school to be Barry Obama, no mention of Kenya and no mention of struggle to identify - your classmates said you were just fine.
13.)An Ebony Article Moved Me To Run For Office - LIAR, Ebony has yet to find the article you mention in your book. It doesn’t, and never did, exist.
14.) A Life Magazine Article Changed My Outlook On Life - LIAR, Life has yet to find the article you mention in your book. It doesn’t, and never did, exist.
15.) I Won’t Run On A National Ticket In ‘08 - LIAR, here you are, despite saying, live on TV, that you would not have enough experience by then, and
you are all about having experience first.
16.) Present Votes Are Common In Illinois - LIAR, they are common for YOU,
but not many others have 130 NO VOTES.
17.) Oops, I Misvoted - LIAR, only when caught by church groups and democrats, did you beg to change your misvote.
18.) I Was A Professor Of Law - LIAR, you were a senior lecturer ON LEAVE.
19.) I Was A Constitutional Lawyer - LIAR, you were a senior lecturer ON LEAVE.
20.) Without Me, There Would Be No Ethics Bill - LIAR, you didn’t write it,introduce it, change it, or create it.
21.) The Ethics Bill Was Hard To Pass - LIAR, it took just 14 days from start to finish.
22.) I Wrote A Tough Nuclear Bill - LIAR, your bill was rejected by your own party for its pandering and lack of all regulation - mainly because of your
Nuclear Donor, Exelon, from which David Axelrod came.
23.) I Have Released My State Records - LIAR, as of March, 2008, state bills you sponsored or voted for have yet to be released, exposing all the special interests pork hidden within.
24.) I Took On The Asbestos Altgeld Gardens Mess - LIAR, you were part of a large group of people who remedied Altgeld Gardens. You failed to mention anyone else but yourself, in your books.
25.) My Economics Bill Will Help America - LIAR, your 111 economic policies were just combined into a proposal which lost 99-0, and even YOU voted against your own bill.
26.) I Have Been A Bold Leader In Illinois - LIAR, even your own supporters claim to have not seen BOLD action on your part.
27.) I Passed 26 Of My Own Bills In One Year - LIAR, they were not YOUR bills, but rather handed to you, after their creation by a fellow Senator, to assist you in a future bid for higher office.
28.) No One Contacted Canada About NAFTA - LIAR, the Candian Government issued the names and a memo of the conversation your campaign had with them.
29.) I Am Tough On Terrorism - LIAR, you missed the Iran Resolution vote on terrorism and your good friend Ali Abunimah supports the destruction of
Israel.
30.) I Am Not Acting As President Yet - LIAR, after the NAFTA Memo, a dead terrorist in the FARC, in Colombia, was found with a letter stating how you and he were working together on getting FARC recognized officially.
31.) I Didn’t Run Ads In Florida - LIAR, you allowed national ads to run 8-12 times per day for two weeks - and you still lost.
32.) I Won Michigan - LIAR, no you didn’t.
33.) I won Nevada - LIAR, no you did not.
34.) I Want All Votes To Count - LIAR, you said let the delegates decide.
35.) I Want Americans To Decide - LIAR, you prefer caucuses that limit the vote, confuse the voters, force a public vote, and only operate during small windows of time.
36.) I passed 900 Bills in the State Senate - LIAR, you passed 26, most of which you didn’t write yourself.
37.) My Campaign Was Extorted By A Friend - LIAR, that friend is threatening to sue if you do not stop saying this. Obama has stopped saying this.
38.) I Believe In Fairness, Not Tactics - LIAR, you used tactics to eliminate Alice Palmer from running against you.
39.) I Don’t Take PAC Money - LIAR, you take loads of it.
40.) I don’t Have Lobbysists - LIAR, you have over 47 lobbyists, and counting.
41.) My Campaign Had Nothing To Do With The 1984 Ad - LIAR, your own campaign
worker made the ad on his Apple in one afternoon.
42.) My Campaign Never Took Over MySpace - LIAR, Tom, who started MySpace
issued a warning about this advertising to MySpace clients.
43.) I Inspire People With My Words - LIAR, you inspire people with other people’s words.
44.) I Have Passed Bills In The U.S. Senate - LIAR, you have passed A BILL in the U.S. Senate - for Africa, which shows YOUR priorities.
45.) I Have Always Been Against Iraq - LIAR, you weren’t in office to vote against it AND you have voted to fund it every single time, unlike Kucinich, who seems to be out gutting you Obama. You also seem to be stepping back from your departure date - AGAIN.
46.) I Have Always Supported Universal Health Care - LIAR, your plan leaves
us all to pay the 15,000,000 who don’t have to buy it.
47.) I Only Found Out About My Investment Conflicts Via Mail - LIAR, both
companies you site as having sent you letters about this conflict have no
record of any such letter ever being created or sent.
48.) I Am As Patriotic As Anyone - LIAR, you won’t wear a flag pin and you
don’t put your hand over your heart during the Anthem.
49.) My Wife Didn’t Mean What She Said About Pride In Country - LIAR, your wife’s words follow lock-step in the vein of Wright and Farrahkan, in relation to their contempt and hatred of America.
50.) Wal-Mart Is A Company I Wouldn’t Support - LIAR, your wife has received nearly a quater of a million dollars through Treehouse, which is connected to Wal-Mart.
51.) Treehouse Is A Small Company - LIAR, the CEO of Treehouse last year,
made more than the CEO of Wal-Mart, according to public records.
52.) University Of Chicago Hospital Pay Is Fair - LIAR, your wife’s pay raise was nearly 150% her already bloated rate and the hospital is a Non-Profit
Hospital, which made $100,000,000 in the last 3 years. They overcharge blacks VS whites for services, and overcharge everyone in general by 538%!
53.)I Barely Know Rezko - Only 5 Billed Hours - LIAR, you have known him for 17 years, and decided to do a real estate deal with him during a time when he was proven to be under investigation. Despite this, you divided your property and had them take off $300K before the mortgage problems started. Then Rezko’s wife buys the lot beside it that you can’t afford, saving you $625,000.
54.) My Donations Have Been Checked Thoroughly - LIAR, you only gave back Hsu ($72K) and Rezko (first $66K, then when caught lying $86K, then when caught lying again $150K and now caught lying YET AGAIN OBAMA, it’s $250k) their money when publically called on their involvement in your campaigns.
55.) My Church Is Like Any Other Christian Church - LIAR, your church is so extreme, the pastor who married you, Rev. Wright, just got done blaming the US for 9/11 and named Louis Farrahkan their person of the year.
56.) I Disagree With My Church All The Time - LIAR, you still have yet to repudiate Wright, who married you and your wife, and you still donate large sums of money to assist the church in furthering its message - hatred and revenge. You donated in 2006 alone, $22,500 to the church that you so terribly disagree with. That is nearly $500 PER WEEK - that sure is disagreement, Senator Obama.
57.) I Have Clean Connections Despite Rezko - LIAR, you are not only connected to Exelon and Rezko, you are also connected to Hillary PAC supporter Mr. Hsu, AND an Iraqi Billionaire of ill repute, Nadhmi Auchi, who ripped off people in the Food For Oil, Iraqi deal. Seems Mr. Auchi may have helped Obama buy his million dollar property long before Obama had millions of dollars. Wonder what favors Mr. Auchi expects, when Obama leaves Iraq free to be taken over by special interests such as him.
58.) I never heard sermons like Rev. Wright’s, that have been in videos all day, You Tube - LIAR! 3 days later during your Mea Culpa BS speech you said “Did I hear controversial statements while I sat in that church? Yes I did.”
59.) The Passport Invasion is a conspiracy to find dirt on me! - LIAR. Your own Campaign Foreign Policy Advisor is the CEO of the company that looked into your records. PS - You had them look into yours to hide the fact you looked into Clinton’s and McCain’s more than a year before!
60.) Rev. Meeks has nothing to do with my campaigning - LIAR. Rev. Meeks appeared in ads for your Senate Campaign, donated to you, and helped raise money, then AND NOW. PS - He also seems to despise America.
61.) My wife didn’t mean America is ignorant, she was just using a phrase - LIAR. Again, MicHELLe’s comments perfectly sync with Wright’s, Meeks’, and Farrakhans, both in language, anger, and direction.
62.) I am very Anti-Terror - LIAR. [03/30/2008] One of your good pals is long time radical and terrorist William Ayers, with whom you have been seen in the last 12 months and who has helped the now jailed khalidi, Professor at Columbia who invited Ahmadinejad to the University, to raise money for Palestinian terrorism attacks against Israel. PS - Your church published a pro Hamas Manifesto - guess you weren’t there on THAT Sunday either? How lucky for you.
63.) I have the best plan to cure the Mortgage Crisis - LIAR. [03/30/2008] You and your campaign buddy Penny SubPrime Bank Collapse Prizker have had your little fingers full of subprime cash - Obama has taken $1,180,103 from the top issuers of subprime loans: Obama received $266,907 from Lehman, $5395 from GMAC, $150,850 from Credit Suisse First Boston, $11,250 from Countrywide, $9052 from Washington Mutual, $161,850 from Citigroup, $4600 from CBASS, $170,050 from Morgan Stanley, $1150 from Centex, and last but certainly NOT LEAST - Obama received $351,900 from Goldman Sachs. I am sure that cash all came from folks who knew the subprime loan they had was a dream, eh?
64) I played greater role in crafting liberal stands on gun control, the death penalty and abortion - LIAR - [03/31/2008] It was found that Obama — the day after sitting for the interview — filed an amended version of the questionnaire, which appears to contain Obama’s own handwritten notes added to one answer. Read Obama had greater role on liberal survey
65) I did NOT play the race card: - LIAR - [03/31/2008] Obama was the first to play the race card. According to Phialdelphia Inquirer, Quietly, the storm over the hateful views expressed by Sen. Barack Obama’s pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, has blown away the most insidious myth of the Democratic primary campaign. Obama and his surrogates have charged that Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton has deliberately and cleverly played the race card in order to label Obama the “black” candidate. Read more here
66) I did not take money from oil companies: - LIAR - [03/31/2008] THE FACTS: True enough, Obama does not take money from oil companies. No candidate does. It is illegal for corporations to give money to politicians. Corporations, however, do have political action committees that collect voluntary donations from employees and then donate them to candidates. Obama doesn’t take money from PACs. He also doesn’t take money from lobbyists. But he does accept money from executives and other employees of oil companies and two of his fundraisers are oil company executives. As of Feb. 29, Obama’s presidential campaign had received nearly $214,000 from oil and gas industry employees and their families, according to an analysis by the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics. Clinton had received nearly $307,000 from industry workers and their families and Republican Sen. John McCain, the likely GOP presidential nominee, received nearly $394,000, according to the center’s totals. Two of Obama’s fundraisers are Robert Cavnar, the chairman and chief executive of Houston-based Mission Resources Corp., and George Kaiser, the president and CEO of Tulsa-based Kaiser-Francis Oil Co.
Reverend

An impressive, if a bit too long, list of attacks against Mr. Obama. If only a few of them are true, it would be devastating.
Considering how damaging these accusations are, I don't know why anyone wastes time trying to criticize Senator Clinton for accepting financial support from Rush Limbaugh during the cash-strapped last days of the PA primary (some even go so far as to say that he/his PAC financed several commercials in rural PA). If these allegations are true, which I doubt, it surely pales in comparison to the accusations above.

Obama is not a wise choice. He has no chance of winning in November and he is not qualified to be president. Love her or hate her Senator Clinton is far more qualified and she works hard for all of us. Obama is a hypocrite and he continues to run false ads. Please vote smart and vote Clinton.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-money24apr24,0,2613458.story

And one more thing, I wish people would stop criticizing superdelegates so much. People keep saying that Obama has won more states, won more votes, won more pledged delegates. That all may be so, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he should win. Sometimes, we may need the party leaders to save us from ourselves. We’d better face facts. Not so long ago, there were no primaries and all nominees were selected by party big wigs (now called superdelegates) in the proverbial smoke filled rooms. Sure, not all choices were great, but some of our best Presidents were selected this way. I’m all for the democratic process, the will of the voters, and all that, but if that alone were enough, why have superdelegates at all?

By your logic, Laura, why even bother to have elections? They are so messy. People might just end up getting who they want, not who the big shots and big wigs want.

That kind of arrogance, that sense of entitlement, is what sets Senator Clinton apart, does it not? I don't agree with Senator McCain on much but he is not arrogant. If worst comes to worst, and Hillary get the nomination, McCain might end up with my vote (either him or Nader).

quote:

Originally posted by GeoffD:
By your logic, Laura, why even bother to have elections? They are so messy. People might just end up getting who they want, not who the big shots and big wigs want.

We need elections. Voters are one part of the selection process. But voters make mistakes. We don't need another Dukakis, another Mondale. Wiser heads should be allowed to prevail.