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Educated |
quote by : mrs.mart
Newcomer Posted November 15, 2008 09:28 Hide Post "Second term During her second term as mayor, Palin introduced a ballot measure proposing the construction of a municipal sports center to be financed by a 0.5% sales tax increase.[57] The $14.7 million Wasilla Multi-Use Sports Complex was built on time and under budget, but the city spent an additional $1.3 million because of an eminent domain lawsuit caused by the failure to obtain clear title to the property before beginning construction.[57] The city's long-term debt grew from about $1 million to $25 million through voter-approved indebtedness of $15 million for the sports complex, $5.5 million for street projects, and $3 million for water improvement projects. A city council member defended the spending increases as being caused by the city's growth during that time." this was an absolutely great post by mrs. mart that i copied over from the ms. wasilla thread. she points out how palin called for a "vote" on an issue of major investment to see what her constituents wanted and this article also points out what happens on eminent domain cases and how they can impact the project prices. seems to me we could learn something from this post with concerns to the lincoln st. project and the airport project. This message has been edited. Last edited by: M. JEAN JOHANNIGMAN, |
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Member |
I think the idea of a ballot question regarding whether the people wanted to expand the airport at its present location is an excellent idea. If the people of Greensburg voted to expand the airport at its present location, then as a landowner, the objection of my family would be greatly eradicated. We always thought it was the idea to take land for the benefit of a few pilots. If our thoughts are correct then we viewed this as an unjustifiable abuse of governmental authority that we think is a dangerous course for any government. However,such a question could prove this wrong and if it is the will of the people our position could certainly change. We might personally feel that there exists a better location but this would certainly go a long way in making the acquisition of our land less of a struggle. I am betting the city leaders will never allow this question to go to the people. I would like to hear what others think about this idea and secondly does anyone have any idea on the procedure to have such a question placed on the ballot?
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Old Pro |
I must admit I don't understand why there isn't more ballot initiative throughout the U.S.
California leads the country in this type of direct legislative effect. Indiana seems to be on the much lower end of the scale when it comes to the amount of initiatives, referendums, etc. you see when you go to the polls. My gut feel is that both of the major political parties work hard to prevent this type of government action since some call it the "Fourth" branch in a government. It is all the Dems and Repubs can do to control the three branches we have already! LOL. Why wasn't the Smoking Ban, or the Beer Garden question put on a ballot? Of course not all things can be decided this way, but controversial things like expensive airport expansions involving the taking of private land should definitely be put before the voters, in my opinion. |
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Educated |
INDIANA COMMISSION ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT REFORM SUMMARY OF PUBLIC INPUT : SEPTEMEBER 1-SEPTEMEBER 15, 2007.
(quote): " indiana needs to join the 30 other states that require ballot referendums for bond issues and various other kinds of proposals. we need to give indiana taxpayers an easier and effective means to counter constant pressure on their pocket books."(end quote). (quote): "recommend ballot referendums for capital projects." (end quote) http://indianalocalgovreform.iu.edu/assets/docs/Public%...September%201-15.pdf |
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Educated |
mr. goddard,
i think the following link may provide the answers to your questions about a referendum in our state of indiana. http://www.elkhartcountyindianaelections.com/referendum.htm |
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Old Pro |
Jean please give you opinion, if Eminent Domain has to be used on the Zenas Reservoir project which YOU favor, Is ED OK with YOU as long as its not in your own back yard and the cost of the project is $30 MILLION DOLLARS.
I just wonder how many people in Jennings County feel about ED. This message has been edited. Last edited by: mrwilly, |
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Educated |
willy,
eminent domain as i stated when the malcontents asked their questions....should only be used in EXTREME cases of need where it is the last recourse. for instance....having water is life giving. human beings can not live without it. there are studies that support that water is going to become a much sought after commodity. since we can not live without it...we need to make sure and plan that we always have it. t-boone pickens is currently investing in running water lines from colorado to texas as an example. we can also learn a lot from the drought that has affected lake lanier in georgia. a chemical spill on the interstate contaminating flat rock or an extended drought could make things extremely tough. if we do not have lincoln st. expanded to the max....or a new airport....we will still be able to live. so i do not consider them an extreme case of need like water would be. then you also have to consider that i added the downeyville resevoir as an alternative to zenas. seems as though if zenas does not want it....downeyville might. at least that alternative has been brought up to me in support by people who do own land there. as for land with zenas ... there IS the potential it could affect some of my family members. i also was sitting in a vernon fork regional water meeting (and have a voice recording) saying if the first 10 m. dollars was invested well regionally there may be the opportunity of 20, 30 , even as much as 40 million dollars additional for regional water. seems to me that might cover the vast majority if not all of the 30 million dollar price tag you threw out willy. besides securing our water supply for just our life giving needs....this would give us enough water to have actual shovel ready sites complete with water (like the other counties are offering) for future development and building our tax base. the downeyville resvoir would be as i understand the biggest lake built in indiana if it came to fruition. that would be an awesome quality of life reason for people to live in this area. This message has been edited. Last edited by: M. JEAN JOHANNIGMAN, |
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Old Pro |
Jean you have brought up the $10 million dollar state grant in the water article. In the water article, according to you it was ok for the city to purchase water for more than we are selling it, and it was ok for the city to commit to a 40 year contract so that Eastern Bartholomew could get the $10 million. What you do did not mention, was the total cost for the long term Eastern Bartholomew water project was estimated at $21.6 million, and the other $11.6 million would have to come from bonds (the same bonds you are worried about when talking about Lincoln Street).
Then you brings up the Zenas Reservoir project, which is an estimated $30 million dollar, 1,000 acre project that WILL REQUIRE eminent domain to get the land needed for the reservoir. But in in this case using eminent domain is ok. You are now using fear tactics without any creditable information. People are still investing in municipal government bonds. Municipal bonds are still an attractive investment because interest income is exempt from federal tax. Also bond rates have been going down, which probably will save money on the project. Now, If no one wants to buy the Lincoln Street bonds, the project will stop,and HNTB will still go to the bank with a hell of a big smile on face. The figures I got today, HNTB has already pocketed 1.7 million in engineering and design fees so the taxpayers money will be wasted if the project does not go forward. Add another at least 1.7 million for the right of away and over 3.4 million dollars in tax money will be wasted. You keep on flip flopping on everything. |
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Educated |
willy, you are helping me to understand why jeff martin posts and reposts his articles !
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Old Pro |
So YOU are saying ED, if it is the last recourse on all projects or just what project YOU conceder to be extreme |
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Educated |
so willy, you contend then that you can live without water? that we as a city can develop our taxbase without water? that a plentiful and reliable and safe water supply is not important or less important than the airport or lincoln st.? interesting............ |
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Old Pro |
I did not say that and do not play that game with me, You are the one. not posting the FACTS with proof, If you are going to write and post about a subject be sure you have the TRUE FACTS. You are the one that is expressing what is BEST for this City, and the way to do it.Now I have seen you flip flop on different subject so what will you flip flop on next. If you can't to get to your House or children to school because of the flood water along and on lincoln St. then you are up s*** creek without a paddle. So you tell the people and the business people its not important!!!!!!!! This message has been edited. Last edited by: mrwilly, |
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Educated |
willy,
these are the two state links that i posted to support information in my regional water opinion article, if you feel these links are inaccurate i would suggest you take it up with the state of indiana: http://www.in.gov/dnr/water/files/decatur_bedrock_text.pdf http://www.in.gov/dnr/water/files/decatur_highcap_table.pdf in my most recent opinion article on the citizens new right to request a referendum on capital projects ... i posted this link of supportive information: http://www.indianalawblog.com/archives/2008/06/ind_law_law_req.html this link in my most recent opinion column was in reference to where municipalites may stand with the bail out. http://www.bondsonline.com/News_Releases/news11180803.php This message has been edited. Last edited by: M. JEAN JOHANNIGMAN, |
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Old Pro |
Jean use you brain please,Concerning the referendum, lincoln Street was approved before the bill passed duh, Now jean how much would it cost to put issues on the ballot, and you are worried about taxpayers money and usually referendums only happen on normal elections cycles, duh
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Educated |
Who really does know the answer to these questions? Perhaps it should be the people that it will affect the most……the taxpayers. I can’t help but feel it would be extremely prudent at this time for our local officials to call for a referendum on these projects if they anticipate continuing with them. I do realize that the Lincoln St. project made it under the wire of being eligible for referendum, but in these financial times, our local officials could really show that they care about the financial burden of the taxpayers by letting them have their say in this and other projects of this magnitude.
http://www.greensburgdailynews.com/opinion/local_story_336192655.html willy, this is just my opinion but i would bet that our legislators that passed the new referendum law knew the cost of a referendum and that is why ONLY capital projects exceeding 10 million dollars are eligible for referendum according to the law that they passed. as you can see from the quote and provided link above ... i was well aware that they made sure the lincoln st. project was well on its way before the referendum law went into effect. for the record i was sitting in the meeting when that precise point for approving the project and proceeding was brought up so that they could beat the new referendum law deadline. This message has been edited. Last edited by: M. JEAN JOHANNIGMAN, |
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