Well finally the St. Mary’s Legacy Campaign hit the newspaper. Wondered how long it would take.

http://www.greensburgdailynews.com/local/local_story_094222117.html

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From penny wars among the youth

What a wonderful religious educational experience getting the youth to engage in “penny wars” and other fund-raising activities during religious education classes.

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Currently, the church is home to 1,200 families, requiring four Masses each week.

Lets see, St. Louis Catholic Church in Batesville has one mass on Saturday, four on Sunday, they are now offering the Latin Tridentine Mass on the first and third Sunday of each month at 5:00 p.m. in addition to their regular masses. Add a 5th mass at St. Mary’s and the 80% capacity problem goes away (actually it did go away until the 6:00 p.m. Saturday mass was eliminated recently).

http://www.stlouis-batesville.org/default.asp?nc=254&id=152

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The small lot can cause quite a challenge when it comes time to park for services.

How many people driving by have seen the lot across the road from the church filled with cars? If there were parking issues, the lot could be paved for use in winter and summer.

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For some, the current building has deep meaning, causing them to hesitate to leave.

I am sure those that are hesitant to leave and want to keep the old church will find another local Catholic Parish to join if they haven't already done so. There are a significant number of parishioners that have gone to St. Mary's Church all their lives and would like to continue to receive the sacraments there, but there is no place for sentimentality in our current society.

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The existing facilities will be sold upon completion of the new facilities, allowing the parish to use the funds toward its new home.

The current church was built in 1884. Where are all the Historic Preservation people now that the parish is talking about selling the land and destroying this historic building?

What is the appraised value of the existing facilities and how much money will be available for the new campus home?

Here is a link to the Arsee Engineering 2004 Facilities Review for anyone that may be interested in purchasing the old facilities:

http://www.jj0955.com/StMarys/PDF/ArseeEngineersStMarys...litiesReview2004.pdf

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As of March 1, 493 people had pledged $6,505,480 to the project through the course of the next three years. Adding in the existing assets of the parish, St. Mary’s has more than $8 million dedicated to the new structure, which is more than halfway to its goal of $15 million.

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Regardless of the final price tag, the Archdiocese requires the parish to have half of the necessary funds in hand with the other half pledged before any dirt can be moved.

So how much of the $8 million does the parish have in hand right now?

So how many people think the new “campus” looks like it has a Catholic Church in it? Church architecture does have some rules and guidelines, for example:

http://www.fisheaters.com/churchbuilding.html

So what happened to the 2006 plan?




Best of luck to St. Mary’s and all the parishioners that support the Legacy Campaign. Hopefully the newspaper article will stimulate additional donations.

For those that don’t know, campaign pledge cards can be picked up at the church at every entrance or the parish office. Or call the parish office at (812) 663-8427 and I am sure they would be happy to mail one.

interesting it is stated there are 1200 families now. when i served on the st. mary's parish council there were 1400 families.

st. mary's has 200 less families and they are now at 80 per cent capacity which is considered full?

Ahh, yes. It's the old "we're far too full to operate" argument. This, of course, is not new to Greensburg. One of the finer examples of this approach in recent memory came when the school board ran into difficulties expanding the jr. high. Since there was never an actual need present to merit the expansion, one had to be created. Let's see, how did that go? Close Jerman, move the sixth grade into the jr. high and, "voila!", instant overcrowding. Now we have a reason to build and as we know, building projects are the raison detre for the folks that inhabit our school board in Greensburg. Out of curiousity, I wonder if any of the folks behind this church project have any experience "serving" as school board members?

For starters let me note that I'm not a member of St. Mary's, so my opinion really doesn't matter.
But, this is what I always think first when seeing a church start a project such as this.

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"Mommy. My belly hurts. Can we eat"?
"Sorry Honey, we don't have any food. Try not to think about it and go to sleep".
"But Mommy, doesn't God provide for all of his Children through his followers"?
"Normally yes, but right now I guess He'd rather see shiny new stained glass and ornaments".

Hey Don, how many people could the Bread of Life feed with $15 Million?
How many kids could get clothes that fit and shoes that don't hurt their feet?
How many immunization shots?
How many text books?

Jim B
Your right on what $15 million could do!
I AM A MEMBER AND I DONT AGREE WITH THE CHUCH!

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For some, the current building has deep meaning, causing them to hesitate to leave.

I am sure those that are hesitant to leave and want to keep the old church will find another local Catholic Parish to join if they haven't already done so. There are a significant number of parishioners that have gone to St. Mary's Church all their lives and would like to continue to receive the sacraments there, but there is no place for sentimentality in our current society.

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The existing facilities will be sold upon completion of the new facilities, allowing the parish to use the funds toward its new home.

The current church was built in 1884. Where are all the Historic Preservation people now that the parish is talking about selling the land and destroying this historic building? end of quote.

as a designer, i feel there was an opportunity with the st. mary's project that was not examined. the opportunity is the current church AND the sentimental feelings and heritage that play an important factor.

i was present when the engineer from arsee engineering gave his report. he was hired to tell what was wrong with the buildings and what it would cost to repair them.

when he finished, i asked this several part question. with the projected costs, did he (the engineer) consider it a good investment to repair the buildings , are they structurally sound, and could they be built on to?

to this the engineer replied and i might add in a glowing manner, that the buildings ARE structurally sound, and YES, they could effectively be built on to, and YES, he would consider it a good investment as repaired these buildings would last from 300 to 500 years more.

couple the sentimental feelings with a plan to build on to the current church and make all else new construction with the exception of the historic church itself. this was a plan that i feel could have been an opportunity to have pulled the parish together.

for those who feel the parish is together, where have the 200 families gone AND in the current economic recession, how long , if ever, will it take to meet the financial goal to build a campus of the scope that is indicated?

i am also curious to know , exactly what reduced the price from 20 million to 15 million?
an engineer that i talked to (not the arsee engineer) stated that the cost would more likely be 25 million. compare this to the 13 million to renovate lincoln st. look at the scope of this project and tell me what dollar amount sounds more reasonable. compare these two projects and decide if the scope of this plan is feasible.

from a desingers perspective this church with proper renovation could be one of the most beautiful historic buildings that we have in decatur county. where are the preservationists? over in europe, you do not see them tearing buildings of this caliber down. in europe, they renovate and preserve them and then put them on tours. i think our current courthouse shows how you can tie a historic building in with a new building .

envision building out the other side of the altar, straight back with a walk out basement area underneath. then to the left (where the priests house is) build the school. build the school up as many stories as is needed complete with an elevator. multiple story buildings are more energy efficient. the elevator would take care of the ada for both the church and the school. the cafeteria area could be built between the ground floor walk out basement and the school doubling for both. the current education center could become the priests house. tear down the school, and the office building for additional parking. there is also a house currently for sale on the corner of 421 that could be purchased and we have the parking lot across 421 as well as most of the block across south east st.

now no one needs to point out that i am not an architect, but i did serve on the parish council and did talk to SEVERAL architects as i was in charge of pursueing an architectural firm at the time i was serving on the parish council. this idea is but one of many that could efficiently and reverently serve the needs of the parish.

what happened to change what is stated in father knuevens letter to the vote to stay on the current site?

parking and ada is not a good reason. anyone who has been involved with studies of any type knows that a study can be put together to support the view of whomever is paying the bill or in charge.

my husband and i are one of the 200 families that have left. you will see us in mass in the morning as a matter of time, but our current parish is millhousen. i still have sentimental ties with st. marys as i went through all of my grade school years there and was married there.

to end, i will add that i would hate to see the current facilities sold as eventually i feel it would lead to tearing down one of the most beautiful historic buildings that we have left in this county as well as taking a lot of same said history with it.

To partially answer my own question from above;
According to Feed the Children...

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Every $7 you send will deliver 50 lbs of food to a hungry American child.

So, that's 107,142,857 pounds of food. Just from the local portion of the cost.
So if someone eats, lets just say for argument 1/2 pound in a meal, 214 MILLION meals could be served.

As I sit outside of St.marys waiting to pick up my son from kindergarten,I marvel at the church building,and reflect to the time it was built.

It reminds me of the many Catholic churches around our community.



There were many catholic churches of this style built in the late 1800s.


My mothers hometown church of St Marys of the Rock, Holy Family in Oldenburg,where I was blessed to have attended grade school with children who lived only a few miles away and attended church in similar style buildings built around the same time,like Enochsburg,Hamburg,and Batesville.

5 Catholic churches in an 8 mile radius of Oldenburgs Catholic School.A community so blessed by a large population of Catholics ,that it had a church virtually on every corner.

And every church had a school,and they all consolidated into one at Holy family in Oldenburg.


And the sad part is the community was so splintered by so many churches that Oldenburgs school closed shortly after I went on to high school.


So here I sit 30 years later picking my son up from kindergarten,and marvel at the structure,and it is like so many I have attended.

But the reason I am at this church is not the building,,,,,,,,,,,It is the people who gave their time and money to ensure that this school would remain open despite odds like Oldenburg and many other curches faced.

You have to admire those philanthropic , unselfish people,who gave ,and ,gave,and are still giving,so future generations can marvel at their kindness and giving as I do today.

I sit in church and thank God for those who have been so blessed that they find it in their hearts to keep a community of people called a church ,not a building, but a church ,open to any and all who want to attend.


We are able to send our children to a private school,and attend many functions and mass ,with out spending a dime if we cannot afford to,because of the great people, and the people are the church.

This is charity at its greatest form, and I for one , am proud to call St Marys and its parishoners, my church.

I'm a St. Mary's parishioner and I think this is the smartest thing we've done in many years. I'm tired of throwing money away by putting it in a 124 year old building (which needs half a million in brick work right now)! Yes I think the 15-20 million is not accurate, this project can be done for 10 million easily and we are currently at 8 million! This project will happen and we will welcome all. St. Mary's is blessed with strong leadership, an outstanding priest and the commitment to be Christ's hands and feet. They've finally took the step forward and given us a bright future!

Msgr. sent a letter out a couple of weeks ago indicating the weekly Sunday collections were below budget. The flavor of the letter was that weekly tithing should not be impacted by the amount pledged towards the Legacy Campaign. Seems some parishioners reduced their Sunday tithe to offset their Legacy pledge.

Before the decision was made to remove the Sunday contribution financial information from the bulletin the information showed a weekly shortfall of $2,500 - $2,800.

Building the campus is only the start, after building it there will still be maintenance, utilities and a significant annual investment to keep the school classrooms, equipment, etc. up to date.

Is is possible that money was not spent to maintain the current buildings deliberately? Everyone knew in 2004 what needed to be done to maintain the church and school, if the parish is flowing with money why wasn't it spent in the last four years to maintain the historical church and school?

What about charging tuition again? Msgr. indicated at one point many families were getting a free ride.

I pray all goes well with the new campus and many new Catholics join the parish.

Many parishioners are simply tired of the constant guilt trip laid on everyone to tithe more and contribute to a unending barrage of "campaigns" and missions. If a select group of St. Mary's parishioners want to build the new campus, fine. However if some parishioners do not agree with the way the campaign is being run, or the project being undertaken, respect their decision and quit mailing "guilt" letters to them.

From the drawing, the plan is not to build a Catholic church. Follow Msgr.'s footprints from his last project...was it a Catholic church or an interdenominational meeting hall? Build a correct Catholic church and more people might be willing to contribute.

For the record St. Mary's does not have $8 million, according to information received there is only around $3 million in hand, the rest is "pledged". They have to have 50% of the money in hand (cash) before the project can start. Some of the independently wealthy in the parish need to start writing checks....

So if they built the "correct church" you would be in? Hmmmm

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Many parishioners are simply tired of the constant guilt trip laid on everyone to tithe more and contribute to a unending barrage of "campaigns" and missions. If a select group of St. Mary's parishioners want to build the new campus, fine. However if some parishioners do not agree with the way the campaign is being run, or the project being undertaken, respect their decision and quit mailing "guilt" letters to them.
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That was the reason my family left St. Mary's Church years ago.

br549hh
Obviously you do not have an understanding of building and costs. In my professional opinion (and I am in the construction business commercially) St. Mary’s will be lucky to build what I have viewed for less than $25 million, and I would gladly bet anyone $100, 20 million will not do it! The trouble with society today is they have no idea what it is to really struggle! I mean struggle just for food! My grandpa lived in the depression and knew the value of not wasting money! Prime examples of waste are the RCA Dome, and Cinergy Field, just to name a couple. Now we are attempting to add St. Mary's church to that list! Thanks to our ancestors they did not have the mentality our society has today, or we would not have the White house, Lincoln memorial, all the treasures in the Smithsonian and countless millions of other treasures just because they were old and needed maintained and just found it easier to replace it! Looks to me like the "Great Response" isn’t so great at all. We are getting pressured to donate more money before church, putting up signs in the back of church and putting ads in the paper! In my opinion the church elders should have sent a ballot to EVERY parish family, after all they did it to pressure us for money! I would also bet $100 the majority would have voted against it! With the economy in the shape its in today, and countless parishioners living on the edge already, not to mention the vast numbers being laid off permanently and unemployed I find it totally ignorant to attempt such an undertaking at this time.
Chew on this figure? If $20 mil was invested drawing just 5% interest and using only the interest every year St. Mary’s would have 1 million dollars every year forever to work with! Maintenance, scholarships for St. Mary’s kids, help for the poor, hungry, homeless, and folks it’s going to get worse before it gets better! Wake up people!

Didn't say that.

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Build a correct Catholic church and more people might be willing to contribute.

Maybe some people might want a couple of new faces in administration along with the new church keeping in the spirit of renewal. Make that part of the deal and see what happens.

Yes, the structure and architecture of the church, keeping with tradition of respect and adoration for the blessed sacrament, is important.

I have been in Catholic churches in Hong Kong, Singapore, Thailand, Malaysia, the Philippines and the United States. When I was in Hong Kong, Singapore, Thailand, Malaysia and the Philippines I knew I was in a Catholic church, and even though a different language was being spoken in some countries, I was able to follow the mass and participate. The canon of the mass was "universal" as were the design of the churches. Driving by you could tell it was a Catholic church.

If I wanted to be a protestant, there are many good choices in our community. My grandmother was a Southern Baptist, and could recite scripture better than most Catholics I know. In fact, my son has gone to religious education with friends to other churches in our city and actually learned some religion, not penny wars, fund raising and campaigning.

I am not a very good representative of the Catholic religion, having been at odds with Catholiscism for many years.

Why was I at odds ? It took years for me to figure out . It is not the building , the leaders,or the people who attend.

It was me!!!! I did not respond to pull of Gods will . How could it be everyones fault my spirituality was not being catered to in church ? You can call it an epiphany , I call it God's humor.

Having attended Catholic school ,it was my only view of elementary education. So I made a vocal committment to any who would listen.

I told God,family ,and freinds many times if I ever had children I would never send them to a Catholic School.

God kept me from having children until I was 44 years old.

I did everything wrong in the eyes of a Catholic through most of my adult life.I got a divorce ,fell in love with,and married a woman who is not a Catholic, and basically quit the church.

And then God shows he is in charge. I am blessed with children. And as these children grow,my non-Catholic wife wants to send them to St. Marys.

I have been the worst member there for 30 years. They sent me envelopes religiously,and I never gave.The church always opened its doors for me when I did attend ,never questioning my abscence.

I am now forced to call Gods hand,and go to St Marys and enroll my child.Here stands a man ,who thought he could tell God he would never send his children to a Catholic school,nervous at the thought of approaching the administration at St Marys.


There was never a question of my catholicism,nor any questions about anything me. How could this be ?

They were truly interested in having a young boy being enrolled in St Marys school.

God is in charge!

And I now hope to become one of those people who can give to the church ,so others can have the oppurtunity to send there children to a Catholic school .

What ever becomes of those of you who are leaving the building,remember the foresight of those who built this church were doing it for the future.

And I believe those today have the foresight and love of the community to see a future bright.