I am amazed. I have been searching why the republicans are so dug in to a values system of democrat vs republican, that they are brain washed into believing the GOP propaganda (like Rush Limbaugh and others) without a shred of proof. I also am trying to really figure out why people don't understand the Parties values of democrat vs republican date back to the 1800's, and that today, there is hardly any difference (except the thinking of far right/left).

If you search "republican vs democrats", the values are all over the board. Then, I ran across the following. Now this guy is asking some very good questions. The Republican values that our friends are touting are not even being followed.

With the current state of the economy, the other issues in this campaign have to take a back seat to getting the economy, the debt, and government spending under control - I really love example number 4. WHY, WHY, WHY would we do that.


http://redblueamerica.com/blog/2008-04-19/socialist-vs-...an-vs-anarchist-2843

socialist vs. democrat vs. liberal vs. conservative vs. republican vs. anarchist
Posted 16 weeks 5 days ago by dem_lucas
I have a question for all on here...
Facts:
We have two major parties in this country, the republicans and the democrats.
There are many gradations of these parties including liberal democrats and conservative republicans.
Understandings:
Liberals lean towards socialism as they are proponents of socialized medicine, government-sponsored education, and more taxpayer money to fund these ventures
Conservatives lean towards anarchism, effectively, proposing very little federal sponsorship of these same ventures and an emphasis on the federal government imposing very little on the citizenry
Yet, Republicans sure seem to muddle their focus of less federal government with some very strange things. For example,
Federal Government sponsorship of private churches under what veil of republicanism would this make sense?
A massive Federal army to venture into other people's governments and take them over even though we want our own federal government to be small?
Federally imposed "No abortion" laws which means we need to regulate a group of people who want to have abortions, not to mention why isn't this a state's right?
The use of Chinese money to fund our Federal tax-cuts, rather than down-sizing the federal budget this is a dozy! This is so strange, the logic here is let's give money from another government to our people so they will spend the money on the other government's products so that we can give the money back later to that government including an interest rate.
Gay Rights / Marriage ya'll stick with me on this one, cause I have two points.
why would a group that wants to downsize the amount of regulation of it's citizenry be in favor of regulating a subsection of the population's interest in sharing in a consensual relationship that ultimately still acts as a part of the basic unit of our culture; the family.
in a similar vein, why would the government (republican or democrat-run) think it okay for the government to regulate what is, in many cases, a church-oriented system. (Furthermore, why are we, the people, sanctifying the private ritual of some churches and not others?)
And I'm sure plenty of other things that I'm not even thinking about now...but it would seem to me that the major paradigm shift is between social issues and taxation, but if you are going to cut down on taxes, how are you going to fund investment in churches, paying for the army, regulation of abortion laws and the disparity of the tax-cut-funding while spending is going overseas?
So here's my question, did I so misjudge the party's ideologies, or their stances? (or both?) that my arguments are wrong, or is this just a silly way to approach the federal government?

Tonight you are being asked to take about 10 minutes (total) to just sit back, watch, listen.

ü Video for our Union friends (but I got goose bumps and so I think the rest of you should take a look, too.) POWERFUL stuff at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QIGJTHdH50

ü And in a further attempt to decide whether John McCain is totally out of touch we bring you another video “McCain’s Mansions” at http://therealmccain.com/?utm_source=rgemail (Q: How many houses do you have? McCain "I think - I'll have my staff get to you," "It's condominiums where - I'll have them get to you." )

ü And if you aren’t too worn out or put out from the above check out the updated web site, new pictures in the photo album and a couple of new blog posts at www.clarkdems.org

The power of the Internet can help make a change in the elections this year.

P.S. QUICK…how many houses do YOU have?

McCains ability to lead. He doesn't vote and it appears his mind is weak. We shouldnt be voting for a president who doesnt have a strong mind, capable of making decisions. Two years of not voting and these stories:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12685.html

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=McCain+losing+his+mind

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-cesca/senator-mccain-...d-forg_b_120463.html

http://www.sivacracy.net/2008/07/john_mccain_losing_all_grasp_o.html

quote:

Originally posted by Beau1943:

quote:

Originally posted by Winston Wolf:

Let me get this right. You think a terrible economy, jobs lost, stock market indexes reduced in value since 2000, high energy costs, no health insurance, inflation rising quickly, National debt of 9.6 trillion, invading the wrong county to fight terrorism, the 9/11 terrorist leader still not caught, tax breaks for the rich and large corporations, highest foreclosure rate since the depression, average wages of Americans declining, the rich getting richer and the poor or middle class getting poorer and all happening under the Republican watch is good?

I guess we look at things differently. I see things as they are, not the way Rush Limbaugh or other conservative talking heads tell me to think or believe. Do you believe only what you want to believe whether it is fact or not?

No, I'm saying the Republican's don't deserve to win because they have screwed this up so bad, but ultra liberals in the democrat party like obama and the other marxist believers screw it up with the class warfare argument. You stupid hippies keep trying to make the same argument or the past 40 years and you keep losing.

To me it looks like they may lose again.

The reason the class warfare argument doesn't work is because as american's we are optomistic and believe someday we can become rich. It's part of why this is the greatest country in the world. Millions of people strive to succeed even though many will fail.

The only way for the class warfare argument works is if you destroy that inherent optimism we have. Therefore destroying America. Which is the ultimate goal of the marxists.

You are so brainwashed you don't even realize that Obama spouts off marxist rhetoric all the time. You don't realize it because it sounds good and makes you feel good even though his policies not only destroy the souls of individuals but also the soul of a nation.

quote:

Originally posted by Rayzor:
Study: Most companies avoid income taxes
GAO report says both U.S. owned and foreign corporations dodge levy
updated 5:57 a.m. ET, Tues., Aug. 12, 2008 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26145921/?GT1=43001
WASHINGTON - Unlike the rest of us, most U.S. corporations and foreign companies doing business in the United States pay no federal income tax, according to a new report from Congress.
The study by the Government Accountability Office released Tuesday said two-thirds of U.S. corporations paid no federal income taxes between 1998 and 2005, and about 68 percent of foreign companies doing business in the U.S. avoided corporate taxes over the same period.
Collectively, the companies reported trillions of dollars in sales, according to GAO's estimate.
"It's shameful that so many corporations make big profits and pay nothing to support our country," said Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D., who asked for the GAO study with Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich.
An outside tax expert, Chris Edwards of the libertarian Cato Institute in Washington, said increasing numbers of limited liability corporations and so-called "S" corporations pay taxes under individual tax codes.
"Half of all business income in the United States now ends up going through the individual tax code," Edwards said.
The GAO study did not investigate why corporations weren't paying federal income taxes or corporate taxes and it did not identify any corporations by name. It said companies may escape paying such taxes due to operating losses or because of tax credits.
More than 38,000 foreign corporations had no tax liability in 2005 and 1.2 million U.S. companies paid no income tax, the GAO said. Combined, the companies had $2.5 trillion in sales. About 25 percent of the U.S. corporations not paying corporate taxes were considered large corporations, meaning they had at least $250 million in assets or $50 million in receipts.
The GAO said it analyzed data from the Internal Revenue Service, examining samples of corporate returns for the years 1998 through 2005. For 2005, for example, it reviewed 110,003 tax returns from among more than 1.2 million corporations doing business in the U.S.
Dorgan and Levin have complained about companies abusing transfer prices — amounts charged on transactions between companies in a group, such as a parent and subsidiary. In some cases, multinational companies can manipulate transfer prices to shift income from higher to lower tax jurisdictions, cutting their tax liabilities. The GAO did not suggest which companies might be doing this.
"It's time for the big corporations to pay their fair share," Dorgan said.

Hey idiot, did you realize that corporations pay corporate taxes, sales taxes, excise taxes, payroll taxes, property taxes, inventory taxes just to mention a few. You also forgot to say most americans don't pay much income tax. The top 20% pay 80% of it.

You want to help the middle class and working poor how about you support the elimination of the payroll tax. It would be about a 12% raise.

The corporation are just following the rules. If you knew there was away not to pay taxes, wouldn't you take advantage of it. Or are you one of this pinko's that love writing a check every year to uncle sam. Or I forgot you problably don't make enough you get a refund.

quote:

Originally posted by Winston Wolf:

quote:

Originally posted by Beau1943:

quote:

Originally posted by Winston Wolf:

Let me get this right. You think a terrible economy, jobs lost, stock market indexes reduced in value since 2000, high energy costs, no health insurance, inflation rising quickly, National debt of 9.6 trillion, invading the wrong county to fight terrorism, the 9/11 terrorist leader still not caught, tax breaks for the rich and large corporations, highest foreclosure rate since the depression, average wages of Americans declining, the rich getting richer and the poor or middle class getting poorer and all happening under the Republican watch is good?

I guess we look at things differently. I see things as they are, not the way Rush Limbaugh or other conservative talking heads tell me to think or believe. Do you believe only what you want to believe whether it is fact or not?

No, I'm saying the Republican's don't deserve to win because they have screwed this up so bad, but ultra liberals in the democrat party like obama and the other marxist believers screw it up with the class warfare argument. You stupid hippies keep trying to make the same argument or the past 40 years and you keep losing.

To me it looks like they may lose again.

The reason the class warfare argument doesn't work is because as american's we are optomistic and believe someday we can become rich. It's part of why this is the greatest country in the world. Millions of people strive to succeed even though many will fail.

The only way for the class warfare argument works is if you destroy that inherent optimism we have. Therefore destroying America. Which is the ultimate goal of the marxists.

You are so brainwashed you don't even realize that Obama spouts off marxist rhetoric all the time. You don't realize it because it sounds good and makes you feel good even though his policies not only destroy the souls of individuals but also the soul of a nation.

Wolf.....I don't think so....this is a little extreme on your part.

Wolf, first of all name calling does is prove your idiocy.

Second, Yes corporation pay taxes, about 14% of the income is corporate taxes and the remaining 86% is paid by individuals, so if you think that is fair - so be it.

Now read your next two paragraph's, yes you want change, you are asking for a tax break. So lets make a change there.

And now the third paragraph, you make my point. Yes, if I had a loop hole, I would use it, but individuals dont have loop holes. If the corporate tax loop holes are closed, then they pay their fair share.

And finally, I make plenty, know how to pay just enough taxes so the government doesnt get more than my fair share. What you better pay attention to is the $9.7 trillion in debt the republicans have caused, with over $5 trilion cause by the two, Bush republican presidents alone.

And before you run the keyboard, check the facts.

To further address your fact of the top 20% paying 80% of the taxes: Your fact is close, the top 25% pay 86% of the taxes and the Top 50% pay 97% of the individual taxes (which makes up about 84% of the budget). But all the taxes paid account for Government revenue in rough dollars of about $1.3 Trillion. The government is spending about $1.7 trillion. Thus they are operating at a huge deficit, which is increasing the national debt by $400 billion per year. The debt is owed mainly to the social security fund (about $2 trillion), China - several hundred billion, Japan - several hundred billion.

You ask if I want to help the middle class? What we need to do is make government accountable for the trillions in dollars of damages they have caused of the last 20 year. If the debt keeps growing exponentially and congress keeps spending at massive deficit levels, there wont be any class levels to worry about.

Then the great american optomism you speak of will be crushed, because the dream of becoming rich will no longer be available.

To even start paying off the debt, the government needs to cut spending 30% or raises takes equally to even start paying the debt. If the debt was paid off at $500 billion per year (principle and interest) it will still take 20 years.

Currently, 9% of the budget is going to pay the interest on the debt. Does it make business sense to operate our great government and country with interest accounting for 10% of the budget and operating at a deficit of 25% or more. No person or corporation could spend at deficit levels of 25% and stay viable. Neither can the government.

This government is greatly over extending our military and spending at record paces. This has been the downfall of every great civilization or government. This is why the government and president are having the lowest American public opinion in history.

Joe Biden??? Is he out of his mind???

Some change!

Obama - Biden........what a great ticket......change for the good of all Americans.....no more McSame and the terrible Administration of Bush.......

Wake up middle class Americans and realize that McCain is only for the rich and still believes in the Republican theology of trickle down......trickle down no longer works in America......

quote:

Originally posted by Beau1943:
....trickle down no longer works in America......

It never did.

Obama - Biden......Bwahahaha

This is gonna be E Z!!!

Biden is the biggest insider in Washington. Been there about 50 years and all he's done is prove himself to be a plagiarizer. Some change.

I expect Hillery to be the dem candidate.

WE CANNOT AFFORD ANOTHER 4 YEARS OF BUSH'S POLICY, and McCain has been quoting that he is in 100% in agreement with Bush.

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/15850.html

In fact, as the video shows, McCain pushed back aggressively against the notion that he’s different from Bush. “[O]n the transcendent issues, the most important issues of our day, I’ve been totally in agreement and support of President Bush,” McCain said. He added, “I will also submit that my support for President Bush has been active and very impassioned on issues that are important to the American people. And I’m particularly talking about the war on terror, the war in Iraq, national security, national defense, support of men and women in the military, fiscal discipline, a number of other issues. So I strongly disagree with any assertion that I’ve been more at odds with the president of the United States than I have been in agreement with him.”

One could argue, I suppose, that this was in 2005, and McCain has reinvented himself since then, but then again, looking at his Senate voting record, McCain voted with Bush’s position 95% of the time in 2007 and 100% of the time in 2008.

McCain gets pretty annoyed when his critics talk about a “third Bush term,” but it’s hard to deny that McCain has already made the argument for us. He not only shares Bush’s agenda and platform, but McCain spent years telling national audiences that no one agrees with Bush more than he does.

Hi Frag old buddy......I see you still have your distorted beliefs. Let the country go to hell before voting for Obama. Now let me state this again,,,,,,,read slowly, one word at a time, and think hard before you reply.

Let me get this right. You think a terrible economy, jobs lost, stock market indexes reduced in value since 2000, high energy costs, no health insurance, inflation rising quickly, National debt of 9.6 trillion, invading the wrong county to fight terrorism, the 9/11 terrorist leader still not caught, tax breaks for the rich and large corporations, highest foreclosure rate since the depression, average wages of Americans declining, the rich getting richer and the poor or middle class getting poorer and all happening under the Republican watch is good?

I guess we look at things differently. I see things as they are, not the way Rush Limbaugh, Hannity and Combs, Bill O’Reilly or other conservative talking heads tell me to think or believe. Do you believe only what you want to believe whether it is fact or not? Be your own man and think for yourself.

Let me still add that Iraq is costing Americans 10 billion a month and each and every American in the US owes over $31 thousand at this point in time.

Anyone wanting this to continue has a very high tolerance for pain. I, being a life long Republican just can't take anymore of this. McSame has no plans other than following the Bush To Do List to lead America down the tubes.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Beau1943,