It's no mystery why teens drink or drive too fast. Turn on your television, watch a movie, view the internet. Each of them glamorize, glorify, and promote the "fast" life. "Go to the club, party hard, live fast". Every ad for a new car proudly announces how fast it will accelerate from 0 to 60 mph. When lawmakers attempt to address driver licensing issues for kids they are bombarded with complaints about "interfering" in people's lives. I know many parents who know their teen's drink, allow it, and supply the booze. How can you be a cool Mom and not have a keg of beer at your kids party? Our society and culture says you can't. It's hard to tell your kids not to drink and party when you do it. Nobody wants to be told how to raise their kids but when the tragedy finally comes full circle and affects somebody we know personally or ourselves, then comes the "Why, oh Why?"

Well ole boy I'm not going to jump in on this one right away but, I am going to hide and watch.

I can imagine the responses we are going to see on this one Woo Hoo!!

....Where's that popcorn....

quote:

Originally posted by oldtimingman:
It's no mystery why teens drink or drive too fast. Turn on your television, watch a movie, view the internet. Each of them glamorize, glorify, and promote the "fast" life. "Go to the club, party hard, live fast". Every ad for a new car proudly announces how fast it will accelerate from 0 to 60 mph. When lawmakers attempt to address driver licensing issues for kids they are bombarded with complaints about "interfering" in people's lives. I know many parents who know their teen's drink, allow it, and supply the booze. How can you be a cool Mom and not have a keg of beer at your kids party? Our society and culture says you can't. It's hard to tell your kids not to drink and party when you do it. Nobody wants to be told how to raise their kids but when the tragedy finally comes full circle and affects somebody we know personally or ourselves, then comes the "Why, oh Why?"

Not bad, actually. It doesn't seem at first reading that you're blaming the product, which far too many people do -- mainly because a product can't rebut arguments. There is nothing wrong with alcohol in moderation. The product itself is not in any way at fault for teen accidents involving it. If the product were the actual cause, then everyone using it would have the same problems with it. They don't, so ergo, it's not the cause. The problem, rather, comes in a refusal by parents to even attempt to instill anything resembling responsibility for one's own actions into their children, and then giving them a product -- or turning a blind eye to their usage of a product -- that requires a great deal of that very responsibility. It doesn't matter, really, whether the parents drink. After all, kids of teetotalers drink too, often times more than most since they have no role model on how to do so as an adult. Instead, it matters whether the parents drink responsibly, don't drive drunk, don't get rip roaring plastered, etc. If a person isn't responsible, it doesn't matter how old they are, they shouldn't be using any product that requires they be so, including cars, etc.

When a kid screws up with alcohol, and the reaction of the community is "it's not that darling precious little angel's fault, it's that evil demon rum!", the child has learned nothing if not "sweet, got away with that one!". It's like blaming cars for speeding, or guns for crime, or food for obesity. So long as we continue to blame inanimate objects for the irresponsible actions of otherwise rational and cognizant human beings, we'll see no behavior change. When there is a built in "easy out", why bother to change?

quote:

The product itself is not in any way at fault for teen accidents involving it.

This is, without doubt, the single most assinine statement I have yet read on this site, and that's saying alot. Please don't respond to my posts in the future, you're an embarrassment.

quote:

Originally posted by oldtimingman:

quote:

The product itself is not in any way at fault for teen accidents involving it.

This is, without doubt, the single most assinine statement I have yet read on this site, and that's saying alot. Please don't respond to my posts in the future, you're an embarrassment.

Geeze! Settle down and read what he said again!

You can't blame the car even if it's advertised as the fastest thing out there. Someone still has to drive it recklessly.

Has your car ever taken over and hit someone?

John is right, too many people refuse to accept responsibility for their actions.

Driving is a privilege, not a right.

quote:

Originally posted by oldtimingman:
... I know many parents who know their teen's drink, allow it, and supply the booze...

The "citizen's arrest" format might be a viable option, and I am confident that Child Protective Services (which in Texas was willing to separate 463 kids from their parents) would entertain some contact on the matter as well...

Dude!
I can't believe that with 18 big post's to your "oldtimer" name that you come on Butt-slammin folks that aren't even disagreeing with you. That was a pretty hard slam too bro, and you deserve whatever return fire you get from here on out during your miserable, picked on, forum posting life from here on out.

Enter the Octogon!

And, rest assured these boys haven't tried to get intelligent with you yet.

Who knows, maybe you are from Wisconsin or something?

Somebody testify!

**** you, dude.

Sigh... okay, first, let me sincerely apologize for my obvious mistake in assuming that you were capable of cognitive reasoning, and for so misreading your first post as to believe you were capable of rational thought. I am truly sorry, and I won't make that mistake again.

As for my reply being the "most asinine statement you have ever read" (note, one "s" in asinine, genius), that simply shows that your reading is neither deep nor complex. But that's not my problem, now is it? As to whether or not I reply to your posts, you are completely impotent in regards to whether I do or do not. Completely. No Cialis, Levitra, or Viagra will change that. Stings, no? I reply to whom I want when I want and you can do nothing whatsoever about it. But then, I'm fairly certain you're use to feeling that helpless, aren't you?

Now, that out of the way, please give me and anyone else who is reading this thread and example of when, say, a bottle of beer has grown its own arms and legs, walked over to a teenager, and forced itself down said teenager's throat. Not "was consumed by" said teenager, but an example of when the alcohol itself was responsible for being consumed. We are all waiting with bated breath. You do realize, I'm certain, that failure to provide even one example where a, say, bottle of any form of alcohol has grown legs and walked over to an angelic innocent teen and forced itself upon them completely invalidates any argument that the substance itself is at fault for anything that happens, right? You do realize that, do you not? You do understand that anything short of a beer, for example, forcing itself down a teenager's throat completely absolves the substance of any fault in anything that happens afterward, right? You do understand that so long as any human has a choice as to whether they do or do not consume said beverage that they and they alone control whether or not they are affected by said substance, right? You do understand that if I make a choice to drink said beverage and then later blame my actions on said beverage, I am at best a complete and total pussy, and at worst someone exactly like you, right?

God, I know you have a plan for humanity, but does it really include people as ignorant yet arrogant as this? Really? Wow! You truly do work in mysterious ways!

quote:

Originally posted by oldtimingman:

quote:

The product itself is not in any way at fault for teen accidents involving it.

This is, without doubt, the single most assinine statement I have yet read on this site, and that's saying alot. Please don't respond to my posts in the future, you're an embarrassment.

Coming from somebody living in Parsons fu_cking Kansas, it's hard to believe that what John wrote is the single most asinine thing you've ever heard. How about "I'm from Parsons" for starters?

quote:

Originally posted by oldtimingman:
**** you, dude.

Yeah, now who's the embarrassment? That the best you have, you old piece of sh_it? I'll bet we can make sure that nobody even sees your posts, let alone responds to them.

Go back under your bridge troll. You really need to find another idol to worship besides your butt buddy John. You're obviously of very little intelligence and even less class. Flame on, cumbelly.

Woo Hoo!
Keep it coming boys I can just smell the intellectual stimili billowing out of this one. And he gives us these nuggets of wisdom so feely.

John O let me thank you for going easy on him and also Pete for being such a gentleman. However, it doesn't seem that he respects good fatherly guidance (probably something that held him down through all of his youth).

Who knows maybe he WAS attacked by some renegade beer and had an auto accident, or, an imbarrassing accident in his pants at a party in the presence of his peers. Poor guy, it wasn't his fault. I'm sure the down hill spiral that ensued was unbearable.

Well oldfart, I look forward to your witty and entertaining response, too bad you couldn't have tried something a little less asSinine

How bout ancestry? From Wisconsin?

Remember if we spank you it is because we love you and want you to be something better.

You're simple and plain, ordinary and predictable. You wouldn't know an original thought or idea if your "posse" shot it down your willing throat. You contribute nothing to this board or society. You rely on others to try and makes sense of your sophmoric drivel. Take the axles of your trailer house and go sell them, although I'm sure you probablly already have, and get your GED. At least I'm not afraid to post where I am from, you frightented little girl. I hereby dispense of your ignorant ass and formally dismiss you.

I dunno... I'm neither from Parsons, nor a Republican, but I found merit in the thread, something worth discussing intelligently.

If nothing else, any underage reader might have had their scatalogical vocabulary enhanced by reading the various well-thought out and courteous responses!

quote:

Originally posted by oldtimingman:
It's no mystery why teens drink or drive too fast. Turn on your television, watch a movie, view the internet. Each of them glamorize, glorify, and promote the "fast" life. "Go to the club, party hard, live fast". Every ad for a new car proudly announces how fast it will accelerate from 0 to 60 mph. When lawmakers attempt to address driver licensing issues for kids they are bombarded with complaints about "interfering" in people's lives. I know many parents who know their teen's drink, allow it, and supply the booze. How can you be a cool Mom and not have a keg of beer at your kids party? Our society and culture says you can't. It's hard to tell your kids not to drink and party when you do it. Nobody wants to be told how to raise their kids but when the tragedy finally comes full circle and affects somebody we know personally or ourselves, then comes the "Why, oh Why?"

quote:

Originally posted by oldtimingman:
You're simple and plain, ordinary and predictable. You wouldn't know an original thought or idea if your "posse" shot it down your willing throat. You contribute nothing to this board or society. You rely on others to try and makes sense of your sophmoric drivel. Take the axles of your trailer house and go sell them, although I'm sure you probablly already have, and get your GED. At least I'm not afraid to post where I am from, you frightented little girl. I hereby dispense of your ignorant ass and formally dismiss you.

Ah... come on, can't I just start with my name on the board and one check mark first?